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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 1:27 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:13 pm
Posts: 76
OK - I uploaded a quick Labradar video shooting 32acp to You Tube - I may revisit it but here is the first cut: 1.4gr vv310 - a bit fast because I want to get to 800fps and see how that load fares.

https://youtu.be/QyAWRcDi_xQ

The backstops are 'Acreage Bullet Catches', made here in Nebraska. They are AR400 steel, very portable and very neat and I have them at 25 m/yds and 50 m/yds. I have a prototype for .223 (which will feature here in a week or two).

~Zip


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 Post subject: Commercial Ammo - 32 ACP
PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:25 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2005 11:46 am
Posts: 407
Location: Western Washington State, USA
Greetings,

I recently posted my results with Fiocchi and Federal American Eagle commercial ammo.

The Fiocchi 73 grain FMJ RN would not stay on a repair center at 50 yards.

I took apart one round yesterday and discovered that the bullet measures 0.308".

No wonder it shot so poorly. Also, the brass is junk as the case wall variation is as much as 0.004".

The American Eagle 71 grain FMJ RN bullet measures 0.311" and eight shots fit into the ten ring at 50 yards.

The brass was better than the Fiocchi varying up to 0.002" wall thickness.

Interesting to note that the Federal bullet was Copper plated. The Fiocchi bullet had an exposed Lead base.

The Federal bullet also had a "dimple" in the base.

Oh yes, the barrel is a stock Pardini 32 ACP mounted in a machine fixture. Groove diameter is 0.314", bore diameter is 0.306".

One mystery solved....

Cheers,

Dave


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 8:03 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 6:11 am
Posts: 75
Location: Haymarket, VA
Federal hydroshock 32acp is 65gr jhp. They do not sell the components separate


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:27 am 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 3:21 pm
Posts: 189
Location: Gainesville, Florida
zipp0,
I stumbled onto the same issue re the OAL for the Travis 62-gr LSWC bullets. The problem began with a worn spring (a mag spring for a GSP 32 S&W L) that I cut and used as my 32 ACP mag springs, to solve the initial spring issue (failures to feed, stovepipes) as discussed by Oldcaster early in this string. I thought it better to cut a GSP spring than my Pardini springs...

This sad saga began with the first alibi I've ever had with the Pardini SPBE 32, a failure to eject. The problem was worn GSP springs; specifically, the end where I had cut the spring wire end had worked itself around the follower and was sticking. So, with the approaching regional Dixie Match, I decided to replace both springs and used the original springs magazines and conservatively cut 1.5 coils. A litter stiffer than before, but ought to work (probably should have gone with two coils).

About the same time, I discovered a box of initial loads of the 62-gr LSWC that were short (0.852 OAL). I tried a few at the range and they shot into a slightly enlarged hole at 50 yards. Whoa, serendipity knocks I thought, maybe I'm on to something. And then my lizard brain kicked-in: geez, I wonder if I could just resize the OAL of all the 0.885 rounds...

DON'T DO THAT. DESPITE INTERNAL ALARMS, GUT FEELINGS, DON'T! Well, I did, to about 200 loaded rounds, which group like buckshot (well, not that bad).

That brain fart led to the synchronicity of short bullet meets a little too stiff spring, and viola, the stovepipes are back, usually the middle bullet in the 5-round magazine. I decided to shoot the re-sized bullets rather than pull them and start from scratch.

At this point, I noted your comments on using the short bullets. So, I'm getting ready to do some more load testing, using wimpy springs. I'm also playing around with the 75-gr Rim Rock bullets and WST and TiteWad.

The OAL issue should have been self-evident if I had just put an empty brass in the barrel and compared it to different OALs of loaded bullets, the issue would have been glaring. I've known the 0.870+ loaded bullets were a little long, and that once loaded into the breech, they could not be unloaded; rather, they had to be shot. A better bullet design might be use base of Oldcaster's design with a RNFP (similar to Rimrock) to give an OAL of ~0.900. The base of the nose would need to be ca 0.311. Unexpected loading issues and summer's nearly here, jeez, dipnet


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:37 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:13 pm
Posts: 76
I have to load a bunch up for Saturday - will use the same recipe - will let you know how it goes


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:56 am 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 3:21 pm
Posts: 189
Location: Gainesville, Florida
First, I inserted Hammerli 22 springs that I had bought from Larry's and this fixed the failure to feed/stovepipe problem (apparently more than 1.5-coils need to be cut off factory Pardini springs). I also bought a Colt 1903 spring from Wolff, which is quite long, perhaps enough for four magazines, perhaps an inexpensive alternative to adjusting follower tension.

Tested several loads using the Rimrock bullet (when seated to 0.900", the case headspace ~same as new brass [0.674-675"]). As noted by zippo, the 62-gr LSWC has to be seated with the shoulder flush to case rim to correctly head space. But longer OALs (0.870 to 0.890) will produce good accuracy; however, the shoulder is forced into the barrel mouth and a loaded round cannot always be unloaded without pulling bullet, and making a mess.

Of the six loads I tested, one using WST produced decent accuracy (1.90gr WST, Fed Match primers, R-P brass, OAL 0.901, crimp 0.332, vel 810-853; 50 yard group: 2.38" c-c).

Another load puzzled me: 5 shots went 1.27" but total group ballooned to 5.3"?? This was the 1.60 VV N310 trial load. I am clueless whey the bizarre variation. There was a gusting wind and perhaps that cause the group to open up. The velocity range was 783-812, SD=7.0. I'M Going to repeat this using 1.80gr N310.

I've updated the attached 32 ACP load data summary with new data . Cheers, dipnet


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32 ACP_load_data.pdf [96.63 KiB]
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:40 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:35 am
Posts: 10
That's great information. Thanks. Two questions though. Are you talking about the Hammerli Trailside/Xesse magazine spring 5 pack ($29.95) at Larrys guns? Did you just replace one for one with the .32 magazine springs? They look a little long, like some trimming may be needed. Second question, does any type of small pistol primer work? What do you prefer? Thanks again.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:34 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 3:21 pm
Posts: 189
Location: Gainesville, Florida
Re springs; yes, I just used one of the Hammerli 22 springs per 32 magazine and feeding issues are sorted and no cutting of the spring is required. I did bend in the end beneath the follower so it cannot poke out the slot in the magazine. I use either Federal or Winchester small pistol primers.

Just did another bunch of load testing in preparation for the Dixie Match in Jacksonville at the week's end. For the heck of it, I tried the Rimrock and Hunter "75" grain LRNFP bullets. The Hunter bullet was more consistent in weight (most 0.5-grain lots fell into 76.5 to 76.9 grains) whereas the Rimrock bullet weights were more variable and less accurate, one case with bizarre variation. However, the Oldcaster 62-gr LSWC bullet sold by Travis outgroupped all. Current best load: 1.2 grains TiteWad, R-P brass, OAL: 0.885, crimp: 0.332.

I want to do some more experimenting with WST; this is the best metering powder I have ever used and the SDs are less than 10.0 for loads I tested (using the UniqueTek Micrometer powder bar). That is consistency with a capital C. I suspect about 1.4 to 1.6 grains may be the ticket with the 62 grain bullet. Never used this powder before but I am very impressed. Cheers, dipnet

PS: My head spacing foray was a waste of time; back to smashing the shoulder of the 62-gr bullet into the bore's throat.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:32 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:09 pm
Posts: 576
Location: Chesterfield Missouri
I don't remember who it was but it was someone I feel that did their homework suggested that Federal match primers gave them better result. It was the only thing available at the time anyway so I tried some and was not disappointed but did not have results that I could tell were better. So far my best of all load I tried is 1.5 of Titegroup. Several have had good results with around 1.1 to 1.2 grains of Titewad but it didn't work as well for me. What does all this mean? It means that different things work for different guns and the most we can take from this is guidance in what to try and maybe what to avoid (unless nothing else works).


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:43 am 
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Location: Gainesville, Florida
Yep,
I like the Federal Match primers too, but their higher cost and inconsistent availability has caused me to start using Win small primers. I have no idea if the Fed match primers contribute significantly to consistency and accuracy of ammo. I know how to do the experimental comparisons, but is that ever a lot of work and protocols have to be very strict and precisely followed to detect differences, if they exist.

I am more likely to realize results by focused training exercises. I just shot the Dixie Match last weekend and did well with the 32 in centerfire (851; was high senior and high expert for all stages). But I did not carry this through with the 45. Aarrgghh, dipnet


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:05 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:09 pm
Posts: 576
Location: Chesterfield Missouri
Obviously the older we get the harder it is to shoot accurately and especially with something that kicks like a .45 I know I have trouble making sure I keep my elbow and wrist stiff especially through timed fire. That is what makes the 32 Pardini so much fun. A 62 grain bullet at around 750 is not far from a 40 grain 22 bullet at a thousand when it comes to recoil and the Pardini kicks more straight back and not up which makes it even easier to work with.

One of the shooters here who shoots stellar scores recently bought a Pardini 22 for what he called a back up gun. Somehow he always now shoots his back up gun.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:39 am 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 3:21 pm
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Location: Gainesville, Florida
Jim Henderson was at the Dixie match (as was the AMU team). I watched Henderson shoot many stages and was amazed by his consistency of form, especially in rapid fire. His recovery was crisp, concise, almost machine-like; simply elegant. In rapid fire, he waited about 1.5 seconds after target turn (sighting) and upon firing, his forearm rotated left ~45 degrees and quickly recovered, snapping back. His shooting cadence was very even. I can see him doing an exercise that replicates the recovery movement. Also there were the Marines and students from the Citadel (good to see young blood).

I don't think I'm going to shoot the extra stuff anymore. Getting up at 6:30, driving the 1.5 hours to Jacksonville, and then shooting until 4PM is damn draining by the third day. Must be getting older...I don't practice for the EIC matches and shot in the 240s for 22, service pistol, and revolver. In the 22 stage, I missed a round because I was still looking down when the target turned...duh. The new EIC rules are stupid (at the command load, you load the ammo into magazines and then "load" them into gun). One shooter sarcasticly suggested we start using magazine checkers, to make sure the magazines are empty!

But on the other hand, that's sure is a lot of shooting for the money. This year, my local nonNRA club match fell on the day before, so there were 4 days of shooting in a row. With the Pardini, I shot an 860 on Thursday, 836 on Friday, and 851 on Saturday (centerfire). That gun is simply fun, fun, fun to shoot. dipnet


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:58 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:09 pm
Posts: 576
Location: Chesterfield Missouri
There are a lot of us still shooting Bullseye who are now in the middle seventies and several in the mid 80's. All of us when shooting an indoor 600 with the 22 years ago were in the 560 to 575 bracket when it came to average. Now one or two will still average a 520 but most are lucky to break 500 each time but we still go for fun.

I agree, great to see some young people continuing this discipline. We have what is called Bullseye 101 at our club now and we have people who have never shot the game before and when they get good advice from the older people they do well quickly.

Our next match will be held the second Saturday of May and I expect the guy I wrote about above with the Pardini 22 to be there to help coach and I will ask him if wants to shoot my 32. I don't know if we will have time for him to get the gun sighted according to his liking but I expect some great scores if he is willing to try it.


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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 5:15 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:35 am
Posts: 10
Hi everyone, Thanks for the great info and the updates on the .32 ACP load configuration. I wanted to confirm the die setup. I was thinking about the Redding Pro series .32 ACP three die set in addition to the Lyman expander M series .32 ACP die. I can't find the actual dimensions on these dies and I don't have access to a machine shop for custom work. I will be using the T&G LSWC Bullets, star line brass, Federal Match small pistol primers and Bullseye powder. Do you think this die set up will work? Thanks.


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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 7:15 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:09 pm
Posts: 576
Location: Chesterfield Missouri
Emmett, It might work but the expander on the Lyman M die is almost surely going to be too small and possibly too short. I made my expander .3138. I aimed at .314 but missed by two ten thousandths. The part that is expanding the case goes in .250 inch including the flare. I don't know if a bit larger, deeper, or more shallow might be better but since I had good results I didn't experiment further.

I have heard that you can buy just the M die insert the exact size that you want made custom. I don't know if that includes depth. I also heard that you have to call them and it is $5 plus shipping. My info might be old so I don't know what is happening at the present time. You might also get away with not resizing your brass and after about 3 firings they will be big enough. Eventually you probably will have to resize them and I heard that a Lee FCD is quite a bit larger than a stock sizing die and you can use it for sizing your brass but of course don't run a loaded round into it.

If you use the proper size expander you won't want to use a stock sizing die if you are using lead bullets. The brass won't expand fully the first time and I have to oil new brass the first time I run them through the expander and then clean them and the die so it won't ruin the powder. I use CBC and Remington and I think they are lot thinner than Starline so maybe easier to size. Presently I use a Lee sizing die that I ordered from them over the phone that is .002 over size and I think I am working the brass a bit between sizing them and then expanding. I should look into a FCD myself.


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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 10:04 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:35 am
Posts: 10
Thank you Sir. I wasn't sure how to get dies that are the size we want. There is no place on any of the web sites that gives specific dimensions. Most companies just list .32 ACP with no accompanying information. I will contact the companies and see what I get ordered. I'll let everyone know what I find out. Just as aside, for reloading .32 why does it seem like most folks prefer the Dillon 550 over the 650? I thought that the 650 could accept any dies while the 550 must use Dillon dies. Just wondering. Almost too many choices.


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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 10:22 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:09 pm
Posts: 576
Location: Chesterfield Missouri
The only difference between the 550 and the 650 is one has 4 stations and the other has 5, the 650 cost more but is faster, and caliber changes take longer and cost more on the 650. I don't see any use for the 5th station for 32 acp. If this is all you are ever going to load for the 650 might be the better choice but if you expect to change a lot, I would rather have the 550.

All dies with the standard threads will work in either press.


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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 8:15 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:44 am
Posts: 215
Wanna know what the 5th stage is good for..... a powder check die. Thats one of the reasons I went with a Hornady LNL, it has 5 stations. My RCBS has saved my butt several times from making squib loads, had instances where the powder drop drum got stuck and had failures due to the powder drop linkages getting loose. Knowing what I know now I'll never own a 4 stage press.


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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 9:10 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:20 pm
Posts: 4898
Location: Scottsdale AZ
I know a guy who was complaining about the high cost of getting into reloading hunting rounds.

He was planning to buy a 650 plus accessories.

I bitch slapped him and told him to buy a simple press for the small amount of ammo he was going to load.


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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 2:35 pm 
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Posts: 215
Unless you're loading a minimum of 1000 of the same caliber then you shouldn't even consider a progressive. Honestly it doesn't really even start paying off until you hit like 4,000 -5,000 of the same caliber every year. I never even change mine from 45acp, I have 2 different seating dies so I can swap them out for different profiles instead of constantly adjusting.

My advise if you're starting out is to get a rock chucker or similar press so you can get your feet wet, plus you can always use it later for low volume stuff, rifle cartridges and oddball tasks like decapping.


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